Just my dime on this one.
Individual and his/her responsibility to take action. Society can say and push for whatever they wish. Things under self control can be worked ON and otherwise just go with the flow.
No use fighting or dragging Monkeys in here, or even pulling up some sort of citation. Remember, a fight or argument is only good till it is civil.
I’ll do my best to “remember” it , thanks father.
At least 2 of those articles are written by people who develop for Graphene.
Before using GrapheneOS, you should consider this:
Trusting developer is the most important thing when it comes to choosing a rom, especially if you are not building yourself. But even if you are building yourself, an entire OS, even if open source, cannot be fully audited, because of literally millions of lines of code. Even if someone tried such an audit, it would take years not to mention expenses, and by the time such audit is complete, the OS becomes obsolete. So, relying on developers is paramount.
With that in mind, let’s take a look at the intro, Graphene puts on every social media be it Twitter, Disqus, Matrix, Reddit or their own website:
“GrapheneOS is a privacy and security focused mobile OS with Android app compatibility”
The message is: We have a new Mobile OS for you, Android junkies. But wait, there is more: you can use your favorite Android apps on our OS.
Beg your pardon?! “Our OS is compatible with Android apps”?! GrapheneOS IS Android. That’s why it is compatible with android apps. The above intro is not only wrong, it is deceptive, as GraphneOS developers know well their OS is Android.
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Last part makes much sense as you put it, but not sure why people go for Graphene? It is é os again and privacy does not mean going into trapland again.
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There’s only one post actually that’s passed around…
Those articles touch on some things we could do better, but also get some essential facts wrong. F-Droid contributors are aware of those articles but they do not point out any critical security issues. You don’t have to take our word for it, you can read the code and audits. We’ll be publishing the results of another one soon. It is important to note that those articles all come from the same small group of people that are involved with GrapheneOS. They also seem to put a lot of trust in Google, where a central goal of F-Droid is to reduce the amount of trust needed to run our service. For example:
- Free software and inspection are key to software we can trust | F-Droid - Free and Open Source Android App Repository
- No user accounts, by design | F-Droid - Free and Open Source Android App Repository
GrapheneOS do good hardening work, but don’t seem to understand other key parts of building secure ecosystem. For example, Danial Micay deliberately burned the signing keys for CopperheadOS when we was lead dev, thereby locking all users out of ever getting updates again. That is especially bad if the private key was compromised. That means only the person who stole the private key can provide updates. He now controls the official signing keys of GrapheneOS, so keep that in mind. It could be worthwhile to find another source of signed builds. I think GrapheneOS is technically interesting for very specific use cases where there is no app store, e.g. a device that includes Signal and DeltaChat, with no additional apps or method for installing other apps.
I have nothing against their project or work, but they have not treated F-Droid contributors respectfully. I’ve heard from a number of other Android ROM developers that they also have been treated badly by GrapheneOS contributors.
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Rings word by word true. I no longer have those chats, else would have shared few excerpts from it. But yeah, CHOS and GOS have that. I was an interim developer and maintainer for an OS couple of years back for 4-6 releases, and I know what I felt on it.
Anyways, privacy is weirdly read very differently worldwide and it’s definition differs a lot, but the main SCOPE remains unhinged.
“I have nothing against their project or work, but they have not treated F-Droid contributors respectfully. I’ve heard from a number of other Android ROM developers that they also have been treated badly by GrapheneOS contributors.”
GrapheneOS treats everybody, who they disagree with, badly.
Moreover, on Reddit, they have their own moderators in PrivacyGuides and Degooglingwith threads, who basically remove any critical posts within minutes. In addition, both threads actively promote Graphene.
As a result the credibility of these 2 threads have been destroyed. They have simply turned into a marketing tool for GrapheneOS, which in turn makes one wonder about the credibility of the project itself.
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GrapheneOS treats everybody, who they disagree with, badly.
You’re not wrong, but everybody is a lot.
The list of targets is long,
started when the leader was younger,
had difficulties years ago,
and the list gets longer and longer today,
sadly.
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good afternoon:
Privacy itself, we will never have it again.
Since we give our data left and right.
It’s like carrying our ID, driving license, medical data, etc… In our mobiles. If everything is connected and has telemetry, everything will be sent to know where, and we will never have control over them.
Every day new news comes out that more and more devices are always listening to us, and sending our data. Incognito mode also has many security and privacy gaps. Or even being constantly monitored by cameras everywhere. And many, many more things.
And people see it as normal. They take your cash, they say for security and so on. But then you become number one, which is more controlled than anything else in this world.
But we see everything as normal, and nothing happens.
GrapheneOS is not the panacea in privacy either. If you say it is better to use Google Store, or after all that has already been discussed in this topic.
Best regards and HAPPY 2023
He is now ‘good-mouthing’ Google, because he is hopping to get attestation for his OS. Good luck… .
In my view, although not a bad developer, he has a disgusting personality and very low credibility: I would never trust a dev who spends his time attacking others.
P.S. Oh, and by the way, he has a ‘brand new OS’ with an added bonus: IT IS COMPATIBLE WITH ANDROID APPS! LOL.
We still can limit what or how we share and using technologies. For example, I use my cellphone for just texting and using some apps through F-Droid like maps, browsers, etc but never use my phone for banking, logging into online shopping or any other accounts.
I have faraday bags that I can put my phone in if I’m going to places where I don’t want to be tracked like how some retail stores would use customers’ cellphones for locating, pinging, and triangulating. Even people with cellphones just happened to be in the area but not inside shopping at places like malls, they’re still being tracked. I never give away my cellphone numbers to any stores asking for it and I always use cash. As for cameras, if most people start using reflectacles glasses then it may hurt facial recognition industries.
Big tech companies do not listen to customers’ privacy concerns nor respect their boundaries, it’s like they’re being passive aggressive. When someone brings up “nothing to hide”, it reminds me of a senior guy in high school trying to put his hand between legs of a 7th grader girl but she pushed his hand away. Its her rights to tell him no, don’t you agree? Maybe because she thinks he’s creepy (he looks like Gary Ridgeway), too old, or maybe she already has a boyfriend. Doesn’t matter whatever her reasons were, everybody still need to respect others’ boundaries regardless but instead he went across and told her “Oh what matter? Does your cunt stinks?” Same bullshit passive aggressive approach with “nothing to hide?”
The way this world is turning toward to, it better not to have any children being introduced to the population. Would you want to have children on an island that’s full of predators? Same thing. Not just big techs that are predators, other greedy corporations that depend on big tech are too.
Good afternoon:
The problem is that with the excuse of technology or even the government, they put more and more things in a computer that we carry in our pocket.
And we don’t realize that it listens to everything it wants. The assistants are always ready and attentive, always sending a pin to such a server or address. Etc etc…
Then they put things that you won’t even use. Or because it has to come with Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc… for example if you do not have social networks.
Then they put the Google store and the brand of the phone.
Things you can’t uninstall, only disable.
Browsers telemetry to the max. And what to say about the web pages. Or you pull a user.js and a blocker for the browser. But because, for example Google is not interested in you using a blocker ublock origin style.
Then banks, public administrations all using the smartphone. To make a doctor’s appointment or check an account, download the application. And application that has more permissions than you know. And then there is the permission that Apple or Google has to information.
The fingerprint, if it is valid for phone security. But it is not sent to any site ¿?¿. The photos are uploaded alone to the cloud, making the excuse that it is backup, etc etc …
And then they tell you I send you my account number by WhatsApp, in short … Or if you don’t have social networks you don’t exist.
Secure and private emails. An illusion. That the camera, Bluetooth, nfc, wifi (do not activate alone) and send things without your permission another illusion. Or your phone provider’s carrier app. Who gave you permission to put it on when you put the sim on?
I use a cell phone that I removed the nfc, Bluetooth. Capped with Afwall the use of Internet and more things.
But you talk to people, and they tell you are crazy. Put on a tinfoil hat.
But then WhatsApp says it’s going to share data with Facebook. And they scream to high heaven and switch to Signal or Telegram… But WhatsApp has been owned by Facebook for a long time now…
I’ll go back to a phone of the old ones. And then I’ll be triangulated by the phone antennas.
HAPPY NEW YEAR 2023 
That’s true. Not much we can do about doctor office, hospital, clinic, and insurances on how they’re sharing our datas. This is one of reasons I haven’t visited a doctor for years and I wouldn’t use my phone for any of their apps. Every establishments such as those and schools, services, banks, businesses, etc should just give up Microsoft, Apple, & Google and switch to Linux or FOSS/Floss like some places in EU are already doing it.
Other thing, we still can use foreign’s email services, search engines, social media network or software services that aren’t under US. Even there are some non-Apple/Google phones but most of them are small or shady companies, not ready for general uses. Like Pine phones still have some issues and it doesn’t look like they’ll be ready for general public anytime soon.
What strange about US is banning China phones and social media that are doing exactly same thing as US companies. Is it because China won’t share our data, even their own people, with US? If so, this could compel me to buy and use China’s products/services instead of US. Even still doing my best limiting on how I use China cellphone while having less concerns of how China handles my data. Not much China can do to US customers from other side of planet compare to being inside US where we are being hustled by US gov and companies through taxes, fees, charges, surcharges, fines, billings, tickets, metering, etc pushing us into debt.
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Good afternoon @Silvershade
The problem that not everything goes to the US. Everything is manufactured in China, Korea.
Apple, Samsung, Huawei, etc…
Then some time ago there were things to block from qualcomm. Not to say all the telemetry that Huawei has and more now it doesn’t have Google stuff. Not to say Xiaomi or Samsung. And Apple is not spared …
Also remember the Pegasus attack recently.
Besides everything is on the net. So much data that we have in companies, with the administration and who uses social networks or messaging services. Everything is there, and that is why there are more and more scams, data theft, and other attacks. To have our data and impersonate, or directly steal.
In Europe the president of the EU recently said that everything will be through the network and 5g. And no cash, digital euro. So what for, more control.
Whoever controls the network and the devices we carry with us … And even more people put smart watches and other things…
If not look at how some people use Apple locators or other companies. They use them to steal cars or other things.
Even today I remember a news that said: check thanks to Google and Google Maps if you ever coincided with your wife or husband, before you meet him or her …
We are going to a world where we are numbers and controlled to the max. And with no privacy at all.
But just think that now we are going to unlimited data rates. Because, if piracy is punishable …
But nothing is spared. Neither laptops, desktops, cars (Android Auto or Apple Car), etc. etc…
A hug
I’ve heard some of Pegasus attack. Was that related to zero day vulnerability because of how US phones were by desgined or built for the same purpose, tracking everybody, in secrets but discovered by foreign entities as they retool this exploit to their benefits? Brax mentioned something about US phones having no defenses against this exploit which explains Apple’s lock down “feature” for phones to basically shut down everything indefinitely only after the word of this exploit has broke into public. So if US phone companies had respect everybody’s privacy on every phones they’ve built then this exploit likely wouldn’t have happened.
Most of us could tell a lot about what kind of authors they are by reading their writings, but not many people could do the same about developers by reading their algorithms. So in tech world for general users is to trust blindly or awarely. Even nowadays video games have algorithms that most people cannot read but we still could recongize how the games are designed to keep players engaged without knowing there’s a cliff up ahead like what happening to Facebook.
A possibly key is to spread knowledge seeds to get more people waking up to what kind of technologies they’re using that are harmful to their future and privacy. Like tobacco companies had gone great length for many decades of influcening people to buy, use, or consume whatever that are harmful to their healths. So why can’t tech companies do the same while everybody are still sheep enough to follow and accept their algorithms blindly. So when will the congress start doing the same against tech companies like they did against tobacco companies, another 100 years maybe?
Harmony OS vs Google, China has more people using China phones than Apple & Samsung combined. Apple used to be grow popularly in China but that has changed as most of Chineses nowadays don’t care for Samsung or Apple, even many of them aren’t familar about them. Harmony and China phones are massive surveillance tools, so Google and Apple are trying to catch up into that same direction. Korea’s Samsung bows to what Google wants into Samsung phones for Americas. China’s mindless Apple factory workers don’t care about privacy for Americans, they would do anything for a small amount of money and they probably have zero idea of what privacy is or why due to China’s brainwashing system.
When people buy any devices that’s “smart” is by their own admissions that they’re dumb. If more people realize that then hopefully they’ll start buying “dumb” devices. Such as to rather buy sceptre dumb tv over other smart tv brands, then finally the money would be speaking more sensibly. What brings warmth to my heart is those big tech companies are now in world of hurting. Their stocks going down due to inflation maybe, but I’m hoping that’s from more people waking up as the results.
Good afternoon @Silvershade
The problem is with apologies for what I am about to say. But people are or lead us like sheep.
They go us creating needs that many times or in the majority are things that already existed.
I explain, a robot vacuum cleaner. You have a normal vacuum cleaner. But with the theme of comfort or that you can control it from your cell phone…
Domotize (turn the lights on and off by themselves, raise the blinds, etc …). Anything goes controlled from the mobile with Google or Alexa.
A cell phone. They break down so fast that a new Apple has to be released a few months later. Or an Android. You used to take out the battery and put in a new one. Now they only improve the cameras and little else. And people buy…
The tv, you need a smartv with curved screen, 8k or 4k resolution. If our eyes do not notice so much resolution.
But it’s the same as having Netflix, Amazon Prime, Disney+, etc… I do not know about you. But I hardly have time to watch tv. Besides I don’t even watch it because it lies more than it says truths. And everything is bought and directed (I do not know if you understand me?)
It is the same as you have a car and now it is no longer worth. It has to be electric, read traffic signs, or take Tesla, Android Auto or Apple. This way they already tell you that you have to go this way if or yes. You stop so long in such and such a place, so long in such and such a place. And so you are controlled…
Here an electric car is expensive, no, more than expensive. And as they do not sell they will force us to put a switchboard in the cars to have us located. Between a luminous signal with geolocation
The problem is that everything goes up. And salaries don’t. The shopping basket goes up, telephony goes up, everyday life goes up.
Either you eat or you keep up. And with it you lose privacy and you lose the ability to be yourself and not just a number.
But between laws that prohibit you to be and to do, and so on. And between what is better for us, privacy and security are over.
For example windows 10 already had telemetry to the max. Well now if you want the 11 has to meet x things that Microsoft wants. Otherwise there are scripts and so on. But who knows…
They tell you that your phone does not support WhatsApp, because the system is obsolete. Solution buy a new one. They do not explain you look if you put Lineageos and you have the new Android and give more life and use.
It is necessary to carry huge screens in cars … Because some screens are bigger than digital tablets.
But it is not only in the USA. Look at China how they control the population. The rest of the world is not going to be less…
And a long etc and etc.
And we deviate from the topic of the thread hahaha.
But in conclusion: privacy, freedom is over in cell phones and the rest is going to end.
A hug
Those are called patterns and FBI often use patterns to solve crimes. It’s a lot eaiser for us to notice creepy patterns being made by big tech today than it was 10 years ago. If we can notice it then so do the others depending on how thick or thin their skulls are, indeed.
The people behind pushing for those patterns are probably psychopaths or do have dark traits. Psychopath is born, sociopath is made, ignorance is a choice, a vicious cycle within void of humanity. Here’s article on top 10 professions that attract psychopaths,
That article is old but it gives us an idea how big tech have reached to where they are today. Not just those top 10, even there many psychopaths or people with dark traits working at other profession types or jobs. For example, how many auto mechanics have lied to customers about their vehicles to have them spend more money on parts & labors they don’t need and get away with it? How many dentists have lied to patients about their teeth to have them spend more money on fillings they don’t need and get away with it? How many veterinarians have lied to customers by overcharging and adding unnecessary medicial practices on their pets and get away with it? Most people would be surprise. The only ones who get caught tend to exceed over an average. So in general, most of them are tiptoeing around the law and regulations in attempts to make it more difficult for others to sue them, (elderly people often are their vicitims). Like it’d be felony for a theft to steal over $700 in value but below would be a misdemeanor.
Big tech can get away with millions or billions of dollars unless they exceed an average like Sam Friedback of FTX cryptocurrencies and Berine Madoff then they’re toasted. Then we have internet providers increasing our billing costs every years to no end. Dumb system we have in America. If we have drugs and background screenings before hiring then why not psychology screening too for every jobs and degrees but it would also have to depend on who doing the hiring and passing. Psychopaths or people with dark traits would want to hire or nuture similar types to their own. Even China has their own brainwashing system, so do America and both are so polarized.
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Cheating on customers is not necessarily a feature of a psychopath.
“Even” China?! Lol. China is the champion of brainwashing.
China is a champion on control for their brainwashing system. US is a champion in pushing beliefs for their brainwashing system. China has PLA that can surpass whatever religious groups, US evangelists have plenty of religious fanatics doing their dirty works that can topple our democracy into authoritarian but China is already far ahead in absolute governing.
Religions are based on beliefs which is same as based on a lie for control and financial support. UK isn’t so different from US but smaller and more vulnerable nation. Google and Facebook analytical were used as tools to make Brexit successful due to population using their services as lemmings listening to Pied Pier playing the flute. Brexit was Russia’s original idea, all they did was planting the seeds, thanks to greedy religious fanatics doing their dirty works. First they trickle in, then they assimilate, finally they ravage.