Discouraged by F-Droid Censorship

#1

I’m a new F-Droid user testing the functionality of going non-Googled. Running a RR Q without Gapps with F-Droid repo as my only repo. I was liking it, and learning more. I went and saw this in the Wiki. I liked it.

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But then I saw this and now I’m discouraged.
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I don’t agree with hate-speech either, but I, even more, don’t agree with online censorship. If I have to choose between Google tracking or my apps being censored by someone else’s opinion, I’ll just install Gapps. I didn’t expect this of F-Droid because I thought that Open Source and anti-censorship were on the same team and it even says in your wiki that you’re against censorship as seen in my 1st screenshot. Which is it? Are you or are you not against censorship and why not give the option whether to have our apps censored or not in the F-Droid Settings? If open source is about freedom, why did you remove ours with censorship?

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#2

I agree censorship of otherwise legal, hateful or offensive speech is one of the worst tactics being used these days, and unfortunately, it is also widespread in forums. The primary reason is: censorship is easier in the short term, compared with more effective, longer-term tactics:

  • Speak out against the views
  • Learn more about the issue so that you can advocate effectively against it.
  • Find a way to become locally involved in activism related to the issue.
  • Donate money to related causes.
    (Credit/Reference: nearlyfreespeech dot org FAQ)

That said, the same app/site vaguely referred to in f-droid’s statement is also banned in G66gle play store, IIUC.

F-droid does allow a variety of apps that people sometimes complain about, in particular apps supporting different religions. I wasn’t involved in the controversy over the suppressed app, but I think F-droid operators made the wrong decision to suppress an app because of statements of some users of the app… After all, they still provide Torbrowser and other browsers, which can be used to access the same site…

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#3

Which app that you wanted was censored exactly? And Google does not censor it?

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#4

No sir. I don’t even know what app. I didn’t want it. I also spoke to a friend who informed me of the ability to add repos and told me about the Arora store and reminded me that I’m always free to get apps elsewhere. I’ll stick this out a bit longer. And thank you @justsomeguy for the excellent response.

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#5

I too am opposed to online censorship. Democracy is about the sharing of power. Free speech is central to it, because to influence decisions it is necessary to be able to put forward one’s views – censorship is the denial of that ability. Censorship is antidemocratic.

Like the previous two posters, I dislike hate speech or harrassment of oppressed groups, but censorship is not a good way to deal with them. As justsomeguy said, speak out against those views – debate them, explain why you disagree with them. Put forth your views and work to do so convincingly.

Who decides what groups are marginalized? Who decides what is oppression or harrassment?

Censoring views that you disagree with establishes censorship as a legitimate tactic and will lead to censorship of all views, including views you agree with.

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#6

Another excellent response, @tekla. Can anyone tell me a repo I can add that isn’t censored by opinions? I will never be satisfied with F-Droid as my only repo. I’d always wonder what I’m not allowed to see on every search.

#7

What are you talking about exactly?

What are you not allowed to see?

What did you search for?

All the app recipes are public, on Gitlab.

You can’t find apps that…aren’t there in the first place.

Why do you keep in vague, what’s the point of innuendos? Speak up already…

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#8

It doesn’t matter at all what app. If F-Droid isn’t against censorship and censors ANY app based on opinion how can anyone ever be sure that what they’re looking for hasnt been censored. I don’t even want to use the FDroid repo at all any more. I’m going to add other repos that aren’t censored if that’s possible. And can’t you read the screenshots? There’s no telling how many apps might have been removed already over this 1 opinion. At the very least they should provide a complete list of the apps they’ve censored .

#10

I can read…but then again Gitlab is public, all the commits ARE PUBLIC, so please for the love of the discussion, read yourself and point which commits removed which apps exactly!!!

Else you’re just spreading FUD for no known benefit.

That post was made at a certain time in a certain context, unless you’ve been here then it’s kinda hard to draw any other conclusion other than to take said words at face value.

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#11

If you’re trying to say that no apps were removed, then quit beating around the bush, dude. That would be valuable information.

#12

That’s a known fact… now if you come with the idea that we removed something in the past just because we’d “reserve the right to remove”, we can’t help you with that. :slight_smile:

#13

With all due respect, @arkansawdave74 and @justsomeguy, this has nothing to do with censorship. F-droid is a publisher and the people who own/run it have every right to decide what they want to publish and what they don’t. F-droid is not “censoring” anyone because f-droid declines to publish his/her app. For example, every non-open-source app is “censored” by f-droid, as are some that consider themselves open source but don’t meet f-droid’s standards - firefox for example. (Even vlc was excluded for a while when it couldn’t be built.)

You may not agree with f-droid’s editorial decisions, but it’s not fair to tar them with “censorship”.

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#14

I appreciate the response @mgolden, but not meeting criteria and not matching your belief system are 2 different things in my book. I could be wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time.

#15

Anyway, I’m over it. I still think F-Droid is great and I was actually wondering about vlc earlier and forgot to look. Wish there were a “yay for Droid” around to access the AUR. Lol. Kidding.

#16

Glad you’re over it. I wouldn’t have commented except for the abuse of the word “censorship”.

And VLC is there now - at one point it was having build problems so they took it off. You can find the discussions on reddit.

#17

For 0, because this policy statement is vague:

For 1, Because clearer speech is officially suppressed:

“We will keep hiding and closing new topics that are created and if a user keeps creating topics about this even after an official warning their account will be closed.” Source:

So, F-droid has a forum policy, linked above, of forbidding writing certain words, sites, or app names. The full list is unknown. The result is a chilling effect.

Are you trying to get someone banned for writing forbidden words?! :wink:

FWIW I only know of one app and site that were banned.

I hope it is safe to say FreeTusky used to be in F-droid, but was removed because of the controversy.

Finally, this sort of issue makes one wonder how many apps in F-droid explicitly control behavior or limit access to sites or information, because of developers’ political beliefs.

But yeah, I’d rather talk about nerdy app stuff too, and remember I didn’t start this thread, or write any forbidden words, hopefully.

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#18

Wow. Now I’m disgruntled again. That really is censorship, @mgolden. Its not abuse of the word.

#19

Nevertheless, I wish I could close this topic before I find myself censored. I feel ruled by fear and an iron fist. Lol. Except its not funny. FDroid is dictating what we’re allowed to say. If that isn’t censorship, you need a better dictionary.

#20

You are not aware of the context there, you were not here then, right? That applied to the discussions at that time, and the influx of new account to call us either nazis or accuse us of censorship. Nothing was added to the arguments…

Umm nope…there’s no list.

WTF? Which words?

Nothing was banned, there was no app, no site. There were only “what ifs”. What if a site? What if they have an app? What if it’s open source? What if they want it here? What if the app can be included? What then?

https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroiddata/-/commits/master/metadata/com.thechiefmeat.freetusky.yml

What was the point of FreeTusky again? Did they update it in that year of existence? Was the app even needed 1 year later? Where’s the app repo exactly? https://github.com/TheChiefMeat/FreeTusky oh right, so there’s an app to ban or not?

You should READ more, research, not take things verbatim presented by randos, yup even me :slight_smile:

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#21

Wow, you’re so in a film. This is funny.

Look at the left, at the right. Do you hear that noise?. They’re going to catch you.

The villains which mantain a repo that ensures that every dependency is free software are using dictatorship to wash your brain.

WATCHOUT!

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