I opened an issue about adding a FOSS gradle build flavor to Signal: FOSS gradle build flavor · Issue #6568 · signalapp/Signal-Android · GitHub
1 Like
That was fast, already closed by Moxie. Because we can already use it without play services and they don’t want to distribute through F-Droid. 
Closing an issue is one thing. But locking it for no reason is another one. I already wanted to write a reply saying he may understood me wrong because this wasn’t about F-Droid but about the build when I saw it got locked.
At least I can now understand krt, mvdan and the others 
3 Likes
Moxie did the same in the past so I’m not wondering about that. This behaviour is very sad in my opinion and stands in contrast to the idea of Free Software.
1 Like
One crow doesn’t pick the eye of another crow… OWS partners with Google. https://signal.org/blog/allo/ Moxies behaviour can only mean one thing: He is “selling” the metadata to Google. For Google data is like money. Moxie insisting on staying with Google can only mean he wants them to have the metadata. He won’t get actual money from Google but profit from the cooperation.
1 Like
It’s really difficult to follow your story, can someone makes a summary on 2 lines?
What is the goal of the topic?
I meant, while the text itself is encrypted, the metadata (which phone has signal installed, which phone is texting which other phone at what time, how often do they text, etc.) is available. If they use Google infrastructure these metadata are “sold” to Google whose main business is data/metadata.
Moxie also declared that the apk on their own website, is updated with the least priority, so the Google Play Store has their actual versions earlier. Even if you used the apk from the signal website directly this results in messages from the Play Store (which is often not uninstallable) to upgrade Signal although the internal upgrade says it is actual (as the real actual version did not arrive there yet). This draws Users back to the Google Play Store and enables them to harvest more metadata of users.
Additionally Moxie asked why people complain about Play store while using Googles OS which reveals a thinking of loyalty. That exactly fits to his odd behaviour regarding F-Droid (or any other places than Google Play Store).
Summary in two lines:
- Signal is a sham which doesn’t understand the spirit of FLOSS.
- As long as it is not rebuildable without relying on FLOSS only it is not FLOSS.
1 Like
But FLOSS doesn’t mean FREE FOR ALL.
With GPL, you can make money!
No problem with the support… but I don’t agree if someone takes my code, builds it and sells it !
Of course you can make money - as long as you are honest about it.
- Usually they make money selling the installation, service, hosting or selling it in a double license with different graphics. There is no problem with that.
- Selling Metadata of users of an encrypted communication software without telling them while advertising it as exeptionally safe because of FLOSS is at least morally questionable
- And last not least the main point: they claim Signal to be FLOSS but it is not rebuildable as it relies on non-free parts. So lastly it is only claiming to be FLOSS.
- Saying: “This is FLOSS so use it” and in the same time making it only buildable with proprietary blobs + and talk bad about Forks which try to build it without these non-free blobs + closing the servers to these Forks + forcing/“encouraging” users to use Google Play is not upright.
Don’t understand me wrong - I am sure Signal is a well written beautiful piece of work. And as a user I would love to see it in F-Droid. BUT I don’t want to be sold on the way. There is something like a human right on data protection. Unluckily this is not treated very well these days. And that I even have to think about it regarding the use of FLOSS Software makes me really sad.
i don’t quite see where you are coming from here. there are people using a given communication software (signal), and they want to see it more broadly available. they have made numerous efforts, with f-droid and upstream to push for freeing more and more bits of the software. now there is a version of Signal that can work only with free software, including the server side of things. what is the problem exactly here?
Regarding specific points you made:
- as far as I know, OWS is not making money by selling users’ metadata. Google may be doing that, but they claim they do not use the GCM profiles for that purpose
- Signal is buildable with only free software, in fact that is what the LibreSignal folks are doing. the current official builds link against proprietary Google libraries, but this is something that can be fixed
And regarding the metadata from Signal that is available to Google, I would suggest you review your information on this or provides quotes to back up those claims. As far as I know, while GCM can build a profile of users, they do not have access to actual phone numbers or contact information out of the box. And as a user of the non-google-play APK, I can tell you I can install and upgrade the APK fine without going through the play store. I do not need a Google account to use Signal.
Now I understand people are tired of negotiating with OWS people and there are unnecessary hurdles. But at least get your facts straight here. Furthermore, I think directing towards OWS our frustrations regarding the Android ecosystem as being dominated by Google is not very productive. Fight for a libre Android instead of attacking people that try to make usable crypto work on it. That includes helping F-Droid, but also liberating AOSP itself.
2 Likes
Where is the download link on their website? I can’t find it.
So it seems there is no Signal messenger would be available through F-Droid client. Hence no automatic updates would be available if installed by an apk file. What other secure messenger available on f-droid equal to or better than Signal messenger
Kontalk is definitely worth looking at
3 Likes
The official APK provided by Open Whisper Systems notifies the user about updates and allows a direct download/update.
2 Likes
Regarding alternatives to Signal that are currently available through F-Droid, I have switched to using Conversations, which supports XMPP with OMEMO encryption. There are any number of free XMPP servers on the internet which can be used. In my case, I setup my own.
There isn’t a good client for iOS that supports OMEMO. ChatSecure is still a bit rough around the edges, especially with group messages. Hopefully that is resolved soon.
1 Like
@sorenstoutner
I haven’t used it very much, but take a look at Zom:
https://zom.im
It’s both for Android and iOS.
2 Likes
Here is some more information about Zom.
Many advanced features will be hidden or removed for the sake of simplicity (with sane secure defaults of course!)
I don’t mind having a clean interface, and selecting good defaults so they just work for the majority of users out of the box, but I am not interested in removing advanced features for the sake of simplicity. I have had enough of those types of experiences for several lifetimes.
4 Likes
I use the Noise, as a NoGAPPS Signal fork, it was pretty hard to find for the first time.
But I do update it from F-droid now, added their repository from https://fdroid.copperhead.co/repo/
This topic was automatically closed 60 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.